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Old 03-03-2014, 10:28 AM
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I just wana fly airplanes!
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Well, not the greatest pilot me thinks.. I think the idle sounds terrific.. at least..
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:33 PM
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It seems like he flew it almost full throttle the whole time. That guy really needs to practice landings a bit more!

Mark.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:40 AM
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Just for fun- I maidened my friends GP Waco the other day with the Saito 33R3 gasser on the nose. Let me start by telling you, that little Saito is a chunk of metal! The airframe balanced slightly nose-heavy with 4oz of lead on the tail, got the motor tuned as best we could- I ended up backing out the high speed needle a FULL 4 turns from factory recommendations (I thought the needle was going to fall out) and could not over-rich the mixture. But, we did see a 400 RPM gain. I believe this little motor needs a separate fuel pump to operate correctly. Oh- and it has NO CHOKE!!! You MUST use an electric starter and oscillate the throttle from closed to open 1/3 to get this engine to fire the first time of the day. If it is warm you can coax it to start after about 12 flips around 1/4 throttle.

Other observations- It's gutless. Pure and simple. We tried a couple different props with more dia, and more pitch with only small changes noticeable in the air. It sounds awesome, transitions nicely, but seemed very down on power even after flying 5 tanks through it. Another troubling factor- one of the cylinders has easily 2-3X the compression of the other two. The poor fuel flow may have over leaned the engine in the air, and we might have damaged cylinders to contend with now.

Anyway- He's going to pull this $1,000.00 gem off the nose and replace it with a DLE-30RA and lose over a pound and a half once we've taken the 4oz of lead off the tail.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:59 AM
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Interesting.. and too bad about the power.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:32 PM
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It could have been a combination of insufficient fuel flow, and the 2 iffy cylinders. Power was adequate, and the airframe would maintain altitude with 1/2 throttle, but my friend was so nervous flying the heavy plane he had it firewalled the entire time he had control. The motor started missing more and more over 2 minutes and by the time I took back control I suspect the engine had overheated due to running lean and power was greatly diminished. I pulled the power back, and let the engine cool in a landing pattern. By the time it was on the ground the engine was cooled down and all cyls were firing again.

I want the evolution 260 7 cyl in the worst way, but after flying this little motor I'm wondering if it's worth it. In know it is like comparing apples to oranges- but still, I'd rather be flying then Flipping around with an engine- no matter how pretty!
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:35 PM
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Yikes!

what oil ratio were you running? What max RPM did you achieve? How much does that Waco weigh?

Thanks for sharing your experience!
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:57 PM
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Oil is factory recommended 20:1 on Lucas 2 stroke oil, I forgot the RPM numbers but there was a definite increase when I backed the needle out the first 2 turns. With the Saito the plane weighs around 15-1/2lbs. With a DLE-30 it's more like 14.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:38 PM
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A little research- the Saito with a 17X6 puts out 4.5kg of thrust, the DLE 35 puts out 9.8kg. That's 2X the thrust!

I love radial engines, but you get 2X the power, 2/3 the weight, and 1/2 the cost running a 2 stroke single.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:48 PM
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yeah, no kidding.. I wonder how well YS engines could make a 3-5 cylinder gasser... I bet they could pull it off, or at least do much better for power. I really thought they would have a gas line by now with glow fuel engines dying.. at least single's anyways.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:11 AM
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Thanks for the follow up and for sharing your experience.

Clearly this engine is down a bit on power relative to 30cc gas 2-strokes, but I've seen vids which appear to show it pulling a GP Waco as well as even heavier (23 lb. DHC-2 Beaver) planes just fine. Of course, those are prolly engines with all 3 cylinders at optimum compression and in great state of tune, at sea level, blah, blah....

Sounds like something odd with fuel, oil or perhaps run in related issues? Not certain about tuning at altitude, fuel delivery setup or cylinder failure issues, but this engine appears to provide adequate thrust for most 30cc class airframes at sea level.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:18 AM
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SAITO FG 33R3 mount WACO YMF 5C (7 min 3 sec)
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funboy View Post
A little research- the Saito with a 17X6 puts out 4.5kg of thrust, the DLE 35 puts out 9.8kg. That's 2X the thrust!

I love radial engines, but you get 2X the power, 2/3 the weight, and 1/2 the cost running a 2 stroke single.
Funboy, i have the DLE 35 with reed block modifications and a frank bowman ring, right out of the box, i installed this ring.

engine is broken in and WOW!!
watch out, this is a monster. I am using a Jeti system, and have placed RPM and temp sensors, and i have collected data on this engine and this monster!!

interesting, now i am at 300 feet elevation, using 91 octane gasoline with redline oil mixed 40 to 1. on the ground, airplane restrained, the RPM is about 7400. i got some data of this engine up in the air, the RPM got to 8400 (WOW) and this is with a falcon 20 x 8 prop.

temperature of the engine during operation reaches a max of about 240 degrees F.
the ambient temp was 70 degrees. the sensor has been placed in the back and top of the cylinder. the DLE 35 will make that airplane fly like a bat!
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksp View Post
Thanks for the follow up and for sharing your experience.

Clearly this engine is down a bit on power relative to 30cc gas 2-strokes, but I've seen vids which appear to show it pulling a GP Waco as well as even heavier (23 lb. DHC-2 Beaver) planes just fine. Of course, those are prolly engines with all 3 cylinders at optimum compression and in great state of tune, at sea level, blah, blah....

Sounds like something odd with fuel, oil or perhaps run in related issues? Not certain about tuning at altitude, fuel delivery setup or cylinder failure issues, but this engine appears to provide adequate thrust for most 30cc class airframes at sea level.
I hear you. Fuel flow and internal problems are likely suspects. But, even in the video you posted you don't see any vertical maneuvers. The pilot is very conservative when it comes to energy management. I love the sound, and the plane flew fine, but it was like flying a heavy.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funboy View Post
I hear you. Fuel flow and internal problems are likely suspects. But, even in the video you posted you don't see any vertical maneuvers. The pilot is very conservative when it comes to energy management. I love the sound, and the plane flew fine, but it was like flying a heavy.
Check out this video highlighting Saito intake design issues and fix. Potentially, this may be what you experienced - cyl 2 & 3 fat (low power), cyl 1 lean due to intake design; limits power and RPM. BTW, FG-84R3 & FG-33R3 share same design and fix.

Saito FG 84 R3 Intake Modification (10 min 13 sec)


Unfortunately, the mod service isn't cheap (I know 'cause my engine is there now), but it is an alternative to levering the Saito investment vs having it sit on the shelf.

Cheers
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:18 AM
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I saw that. Waaay too much work for something so expensive, and should work right out of the box.
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